how to separate water meters
how to separate water meters
Expensive utilities like electric and gas. She owns several buildings and she had a $1,700 water bill for a quarter. Jim: I bought a whole bunch of them from surplus from a water utility in New Jersey. It just helps out with service. In comparison with most other states, the Massachusetts law (see M.G.L. Hang on. You go under the sink, you turn the shut valve off, you put this on after the shutoff. Utility submetering laws vary widely from state to state, and more than half of all U.S. states have no laws regulating submetering. No public housing at all. Would you like to be notified via email when somebody replies to this thread? With that, were probably going to have some questions at the end. Still, cost aside, the bigger obstacle to installing water submeters for many landlords in Massachusetts is the state law. Please elaborate. Male Audience 1: I usually see about $60 per month per unit water use. In my duplex they set it up right where the line breaks into two few feet away once it enters the building. So you pay your water utility and you collect it from the tenants? Rich: It has the name of the law at the top. Scott: You know one point I could make and somebody correct me if Im wrong about this, but theres the revenue generation part of this and then theres the control part of this, right? But a lot of it comes down to people relations and how you explain things and how you are with people and that really means a lot more than a lot of this other stuff assuming that you are all in compliance with the law anyway. Before I went and got into investing, I talked to a bunch of people on that property and one consistent theme that came up after lead paint was water usage. Male Audience 5: I have had submeters for 30 years, and the way I did that, not to charge the tenant at all. The good news for landlords who would like to submeter but dont have the time or inclination for setting it up is that there are numerous outsourcing options in todays marketcontractors that specialize in submetering and can take care of every aspect of the job, from installation to reading and billing. Assuming its not set up that way, then what? All right, look theres a website, TrueSubmeter.com, which is the first search results, so I think it gets some traffic, but I didnt give me a quote in time for tonight. Finally, the tight Massachusetts state law only applies to landlords who want to charge their tenants directly for their water usage. Jim: I think they dont want you to kick out they dont want to have the event of having the meter put in as an event that allows you to kick people out to order to start charging for the water. Doug: Here is what we understand. Now assuming that you go into a house where you dont have four supply lines or really eight because you need four cold and four hot, right? Scott: Surcharges include, how does it work, blah, blah, blah. Scott: Yeah, so right here. Does this sound right? Peter: [unintelligible 0:11:38] they want. /r/Landlord is a community for landlords to come together to discuss anything landlord related. Peter: Whats the logic behind the fact that a tenant cannot waive that and allow it to happen while theyre in there? You have a tenant, you cannot do that because youre changing their money. You would have to track the usage on the sub meters and bill accordingly. Cheaper nicer safer happier brighter more private, where people want it. News, ideas, blog posts, websites, resources, etc. I bought a duplex and the person before me has them split the cost 50/50. They have to be installed by a licensed plumber. Landlords may only charge tenants for water used by them and in their units exclusively; no charge may be levied for water usages in common areas shared by more than one tenant. Thats how they send you your water bill. Incorporate the municipal submetering form in the agreement. I mean you can figure out $100, you can get a submeter. Identify and curtail waste by submetering with pro tips from others who have done this before. Scott: Its very cool. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. I see some hands going up. The Legislature Needs to Hear from You: OpposeLocal Control of Housing Policy, Search Eviction Records by Address (Beta), Statewide Rental Real Estate Networking and Training. Youre still going to have to float that bill to your municipality. All right, so Scott, this is something that youve done and youve implemented. Seems like it would save you a whole lot of headaches and add to resale a bit. Not only have you wasted the water, but youre paying for it to go down the drain. If you want to get fancy, they have meters that email you water usage every month automatically. Theres things in the law and like I said, I dont want to go into too much of that because Im not an expert on it. I guess they already thought of that, so you cant do that. Rich: Like over here, there is a common area submeter on Scotts slide here. Scott: You just Google submeter, youll see a whole bunch of stuff out there. Without submeters monitoring each of your renters water usage, you have no idea which tenant is running up the bill, or even if its a collective problem among more than a single renter. Now, for the --, George: Just keep an eye for them on who is using the most. I've heard something about a kind of counter that we might install on each line ourselves. Accessing the plumbing in order to run dedicated water lines to each unit could require costly renovation to open up walls, followed by plaster or drywall replacement and repainting. Scott: Ill also show you the inside this. Theyre all new lines run up, one main line to each unit, so it was really easy right in the basement to install submeters oops! After the city meter is your main line and the trick is it depends on how your plumbing is. Cold water is usually supplied to each unit via one vertical supply line. Now two segments in a row, weve gone overtime, so I apologize for that. Rich: Would you mind just kind of reading the bullet points on that? What we did is we put recirc lines to the farthest apartments, and what happens is when that person turns up hot water on, they got instant hot water. Im guessing no one hasnt actually drive this yet. I learned about this law that passed in Massachusetts. Just like with electrical panels, if you have a triple-decker, you have to have four electrical meters, right? I think it needs a cellphone line. Anything else and you'll have to do the "billing" for water usage to your tenant directly. Doug: Sixty dollars a month, yes. Rich: Yeah, you might have a plumbing leak somewhere. That was going to be my next question. How many people have done it as part of major renovation and had the walls opened anyway? Modify your rental agreement to contain a submetering clause and a space to write the meter reading into it at lease start. For me it was worth it because it raises the level of awareness.. c. 186, 22) is a relatively stringent set of regulations. Male Audience 2: I don't know how long this takes up. Upon the commencement of a new tenancy in such dwelling unit and only if: the dwelling unit is being occupied for the first time; or, the previous tenant was NOT evicted without cause. I'm in the same boat myself. Jim has a lot to contribute to this, so Im going to pass this along to him for a minute. Rich: They cannot. But no matter what data reporting system you use, youll spend time recording meter readings, calculating costs and writing and delivering invoices to tenants. In my case, I bought my buildings free of tenants. If so, you must include your valid email address here. Log in or get access for as little as $3. So if i wanted to at any point i could have it done fairly easy. Thanks, Sewer cost is usually dependent upon the amount of water used so it should be easy to figure out.Keep in mind in order to separate out the water you will probably need to run new cold water lines, The water lines to each apartment are easily accessible from the basement parking area. According to National Exemption Service (NES), a national submetering contractor, installing water submeters typically results in a reduction in water use of between 15 and 30 percent. You have to have the first floor, second floor, third floor and the common area. My tenants seem to like that concept. I disconnect and I put locks on them. of course this all depends on how the pluming inside is set up. Male Audience 2: Id say that payback schedule is probably reasonable, but I havent done major renovation anyway, so I just. You cannot start a new lease and have them sign. Male Audience 3: Present tenant is because youd be changing their rent. When doing so, youll need to consider measurement units. One, you can put a valve out in the front of the meter, one after it. Rich: Thats a really important point in general that Scott is making is theres what you can do legally and what you cant do legally. It cant be without cause. Rich: So there are a lot of ways to save money on your water bill. Scott: Yes, exactly, and one thing Ive recently come across is that if you do feel that the tenants arent going to be happy, theyre not going to accept this, an option is to say, Okay, forget about the -- Lets say you come into a situation with an empty building and you have submeters. It says water utility submetering, and it has a bunch of bullet points. You wouldnt even have to put the low-flow fixtures in the apartments. When I found out that I could separate each apartment, I jumped on the opportunity. It also would help if you can put up the submeters, you can tell which floor to focus on if there is somebody running a Laundromat at our apartment. Consider, for example, the typical three-decker, ubiquitous throughout Worcester and Suffolk Counties. If you see it go to zero, you know the meter has been tampered with or broken. Anyway, so we have George Chapman here who is kind enough to come and talk to us. Its $40 each. Thats the basic idea there. Damn 350 is a lot for water dang. The law is pretty specific about it. Scott: Yeah. If you Google water submeter law booklet, youll come up with a hit that gets you to this presentation right here. A variety of water submeters are available, including wireless devices that can deliver data online. That becomes wasted water. Beyond the finances, landlords also must consider the added time they will now have to allow for taking readings. Basically, this is where Ive learned all the things that I needed to do for --. They were using almost 300 because she had old-style wash machines. Thats for your steel cocks. Depending on your area I would do the split meter, and next time the lease renewal is up, I would make them buy their own water. The only good hands off way is to get another meter installed. Well I guess it's not too much for a duplex if you have washer and dryer in both units. Rich: Actually were out of them. Those are the one you can afford to bill back. Your toilets are going to have to flush less than a certain amount per flush. I have not seen any craziness in terms of water usage since. Thats a lot of laundry. For tenants part, too, some appreciate the transparency of seeing a monthly bill and paying for their water usage directly. So if sewer is billed as a percentage of submetered water, the cost of sewer can also be sub-billed to renters. Worcester quarterly bills are confusing, but anyways, Im just trying round numbers here. MassLandlords in November made available to members a customizable rent invoice including a section for water billing for submetered units. Male Audience 2: Is that in the last slide? (l) A landlord may not shut off or refuse water service to a tenant on the basis that the tenant has not paid a separately assessed submetered water usage charge. Pretty clear where each one goes. You just adjust that on a spreadsheet. Theres a lot to it. What happened was the town made him do that. Discuss options for retrofitting as cost effectively as possible (see above). Otherwise you also have to get a separate meter for the yard too. Can sewage charges be legally added too? Male Audience 1: $180 a quarter per unit. Scott: I have this on some slides. Anyone recollect what Im looking for? Submeters are great for keeping track of what your tenants are using and Im going to give you an example. Monthly updates, smart and relevant articles, and free premium content. Instead of raising rents this year, we had the idea of installing separate water meters (or usage counters) and recouping some of our rising costs that way. I think well be ahead. Submetered billing is not straight forward and requires extra transactions with each of your tenants every month. There is no shortage of anecdotes among landlords about surprise multi-thousand dollar water bills and sudden exorbitant increases in usage. (See related, Water Submetering: Requirements and Step-by-Step Instructions, for specifics.). Member dues support this mission. My time is valuable so for water I have figured it doesn't pay. George, you said you could stick around, too. Each time I re-rented a unit, I made the tenant pay me for their water and sewer costs. Its a website. Female Audience 2: Thats why its [unintelligible 0:11:44]. This is where the submetering will come in useful. Any insights/tips on how to do this tactfully? Now, sure the renters can tamper it and take it out, but if they don't know that its there or theyre not malicious, youre going to get a signal from this battery. He was talking about 60 gallons per day. Do you have that sheet? Wow! Now he switched over from a well to city water when Wal-Mart went in there. you can add a sub meter and check it yourself. I can tell you thats high. Im going to come up front. Hes going to tell us a little bit about logistically what its like to get this done in different-sized buildings. I am a licensed plumber in Los Angeles. It doesn't quite cover the amount but offsets my costs with minimal head ache. Okay, thats a lot of the room, okay so that means that if the other half of the room has buildings of other sizes as well. [0:10:00]. Once tenants know they will potentially have to pay for the water, they become more cautious not to waste it, said Harry Paul-Emile, a landlord in Framingham who installed water submeters for his rentals about 10 years ago when he noticed his water bill continually increasing without knowing why. In this all-too-common scenario, the water bill arrives and for some reason, without warning, you owe thousands of dollars. You cant just if you have an existing tenant, you cant just start doing it. A lot of water is being wasted from tenants using and waiting for that water to get to the third floor and at that point in time, you as a landlord is saving money because youre not standing there waiting for the hot water to come. If youre a conscientious person and youre not wasting water, then youre only going to pay for what you use and the other tenants are going to pay for what they use. Now I am from ohio and water is cheap so i don't worry about it. That means physically checking each meter youve installed once a month, or at least installing a camera pointed at the meter for remote readings.
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